Welcome back to the show.
Tens of thousands of people have so far fled Ukraine in the
first few days since this invasion in order to escape Russia.
Quite frankly, according to the U. N.
Neighboring countries like Poland Hungary and Romania.
I've already seen a total of half a million Ukrainian refugees. Wow!
Those numbers are expected to continue to surge,
Leading quite frankly to a refugee crisis.
In an effort to help those who have been displaced.
Airbnb has announced it will house up to 100,000 Ukrainian refugees.
While the hospitality has been applauded by many.
It also highlights the stark difference
in treatment given to migrants and refugees
from the Middle East
and Africa
joining us now to discuss more about
this Professor of psychology or philosophy rather.
And director of politics at Northwestern serena Peric serena. Welcome to the show.
Really nice to have you here.
So thousands of Ukrainian town have largely
ended up in some countries that have been
somewhat reluctant
to welcome refugees. Has there been a bit of a change?
What have we seen the last several days?
Yes, somewhat reluctant, is a great choice of phrase.
Uh we've seen those countries to be extremely reluctant to
let in refugees in the past immigrants in general,
particularly starting from the 2015 crisis as recently as last summer,
we saw countries Hungary Poland Romania
being very skeptical about allowing refugees in
and when the crisis in Ukraine began a couple of four days ago. Now,
we saw that turn almost on its head.
And these countries in fact were very welcoming and very receptive to refugees.
And I think it's really important to say this is exactly how refugees be welcomed.
They should be allowed in legally, They should be there.
They're processing should be facilitated as orderly manner possible.
And the spirit of the people at the border showing up with
food signs offering to help offer to drive offers drive people around
um are wonderful.
And it shows that europe really can do this when the political will is present.
But you're absolutely right.
It stands in sharp contrast to the way refugees from Syria Afghanistan Iraq
um and countries in Africa have been treated in those countries
Now, Serena to this point and I don't want to detract from,
from the good faith that a lot of people clearly are shown.
But there are reports from France 24 and other outlets about
citizens from countries like Nigeria and South Africa that are alleging
pretty incredible racism in an effort to try and flee even the country of Ukraine.
Now we have seen some of these sort of anecdotal videos pop up on social media and
as I told our viewers at the top of the broadcast,
you should take everything you see with a small grain of salt
at least that you see on social media before it's ultimately verified.
But but is that sort of reporting that you can either confirm or talk to us about
because there even appears to be this
pretty severe racial division even amidst this specific
refugee story. What have we seen there?
Absolutely.
I've read the same reports that you're referring
to of people from people from Africa as well
as indian students who are studying in Ukraine
and trying to leave and go into Poland,
being turned away and told that this is only for Ukrainians or told to, you know,
get off a bus or get off the train that these are only for Ukrainians?
I have heard as well
population that this is in fact Russian propaganda being planted in social media,
and so it should be taken with a grain of salt.
So, I don't, you know, I'm not in a position to confirm these reports.
Um, but I we have heard anecdotal stories of people from africa and from India
having a very difficult time crossing the border,
ultimately successfully being able to do so.
Um, so it's hard to know.
Is the xenophobia and racism.
Is this just the confusion of what's happening at the moment?
You know, perhaps the polish border guards were told, you know,
Ukrainians are allowed in,
whereas there used to processing non Ukrainians in a different way,
it's hard to know exactly where what's happened, but from what I've heard
the Nigerian south Africans, indians are being slowly allowed in.
But but you're absolutely right,
it speaks to a kind of racism that is very present
and very much at the forefront of how we respond to refugees
to this specific refugee crisis.
Let's call it what it is kind of really large here serena
what are their main means of escape? Help us better understand.
I mean, just the sheer mileage with which some families, I mean very,
very small Children need to try and flee
to safety. Help us better understand what's at stake.
It's absolutely incredible.
And if you can put yourself in their place, it's very heartbreaking men, as we know,
because of the Martial Law that was put into effect a few days ago,
are not allowed to leave the country.
So if your family, if you're a heterosexual family with small Children,
um you know, you know, your husband, your father
might need to stay behind and fight and so you might
as a woman be
taking your child or your Children
and to try to flee the country. Now, how do you flee the country?
That it's extremely complicated? Many people were caught off guard with it
and had no plans to leave Ukraine until they started hearing bombs
going off in their neighborhood and seeing the fighting in the streets.
I've heard reports of people who thought, well,
we'll gather a couple of possessions to go into the bomb shelter for the night,
but quickly realized that they're just not safe
staying in Ukraine and will take those meager belongings
and either get into the car, try to get onto train or try to get a bus to the border.
But it's so packed the last 24-48 hours that people are waiting in
line for hours that upwards of 2030 hours and some decide to cross,
you know, miles and miles over, the you know to walk several
10 10 2030 40 miles to get to the border.
So then wait in line again to be processed
by polish border guards or Hungarian border guards.
Um by contrast, once they are able to cross the border,
they're greeted very warmly by the citizens.
They're they're given meals, toiletries, treats for the kids.
And but I think that that expression of solidarity is really,
really important for refugees.
And I think it's only that only once they get to safety that they realize what's
happened and the full extent of what they've
lost and allow themselves to really experience that.